My First (and probably last) Interview

View from the Pew: An Interview with Steve McGill
Posted on October 31, 2011 by Chuck Fuller (ministryu.org)
Christian ministers sometimes fail to consider the perspectives of the people they serve, often to their own demise. The process behind such neglect involves an unfortunate mindset in which a minister, with his education and training, thinks that the input from a layperson is at best naïve and, at worst, inept. These assumptions are false. People without professional, academic theological training can indeed think biblically (we believe in the perspicuity of Scripture, don’t we?), and can often provide insight into a church’s history and cultural health that would take a pastor years—even decades in some cases—to decipher. The bottom line is that ministry leaders should indentify the attentive observers and strategic thinkers, and listen to them. Getting the view from the pew is critically important.

Steve McGill is a deacon at Good Hope Baptist Church in Iva, SC, where I have been doing some interim preaching over the past few months. The first time I walked into the auditorium at Good Hope, I knew it had a story that I needed to learn, and Steve (along with others) has assisted me in understanding the history, culture, sensitivities, and needs of the congregation. Indeed, without gaining the “view from the pew,” even my best intentions would be ill-informed, poorly honed, and possibly harmful to the church’s future.

Steve is one of several attentive observers and strategic thinkers at Good Hope. He maintains a blog (stevemcgill.wordpress.com) that I heartily recommend. Below you will find his answers to a few questions on leadership, church culture, change, and evangelism. I hope our conversation not only gives you insight into these matters, but prompts you to seek the view from your own pews.

Chuck: Good Hope is historic and rural, but it feels much more like a new church plant. Good Hope offers contemporary worship, home groups, and a remarkably simple church format (worship, connect, serve). How did the transition happen and what were the costs?
Steve: I wasn’t there in those days, but GH was essentially a dying church when former pastor, Robbie Garrett, came. He introduced a blended worship style and began to attract some younger families to the church. That’s when my family and I connected with GH. Robbie began small groups and we went through a couple of “Purpose Driven” seasons as a church using video from Saddleback. He also brought a Celebrate Recovery ministry to GH. Robbie moved on to other callings and the pastor that succeeded him, Jamie Duncan, continued and accelerated change. Under his leadership, we hired a great young worship leader named Jonathan Fowler and we went from blended worship to truly contemporary music. Jamie was responsible for incorporating many of the “simple church” philosophies at GH. Not everyone embraced change, so there were seasons that tested the staff, leadership, and membership of the church. Some church people moved on to other churches in the area. GH came out of the process bruised, but better. That might be considered a cost, but I believe it was absolutely essential for us to be the church we are now.

Chuck: It appears that Good Hope meticulously maintains a very healthy church culture. By in large, the church trusts its leadership, supports its staff, and complaining seems to be minimal (at least compared to many churches). What are the keys to maintaining a healthy church culture?
Steve: I think ultimately every organization reflects the heart of its leadership. Healthy leaders attract other healthy leaders and dysfunctional leaders attract dysfunctional leaders. I think it is hard to overestimate how much this influences organizational culture from top to bottom. I see this dynamic in church for sure, but the principle plays out in sports, business, politics, you name it. Perhaps the biggest difference is that I believe it is God’s role to move (or remove) point leaders and we should be very careful in that.

I’d also say that we have older lay leaders at GH that are willing to give up control and decision making to new and young leaders, instead on holding tightly to control everything.

Chuck: Over the past few years, Good Hope has recorded a remarkably high number of baptisms. What has fostered such evangelistic fruit?
Steve: Jamie was passionate about introducing people far from God to the good news of Jesus and getting them to go public in baptism. Josiah and Kelly Jones have led a very fruitful youth ministry at Good Hope for years, as well. We have been allowed to reach out and connect with people that just don’t feel welcome or comfortable coming to a more traditional, formal church. Many of them were hurting people with lots of problems, and God just brought them to Himself. All of their issues didn’t go away, however, and certainly not everyone baptized at Good Hope is a faithful, serving member. I think we’re learning that our job is to share the Gospel, love people the best we can, offer them a place to be learn and grow in their relationship with God, and trust the outcomes to the Holy Spirit.

Chuck: Good Hope is currently searching for its next pastor. From your perspective (understanding that you’re not speaking for the entire congregation, or even the search committee), what are the essential qualities Good Hope needs in its pastor?
Steve: Well, the first requirement is someone that loves and follows Christ and that has God’s heart for other people. I think our “sweet spot” would be someone theologically conservative but pretty progressive in their methodology. We aimed younger than I think most churches would when looking for a senior pastor. We agreed that our new pastor should either have a seminary education or have a bachelor’s degree and be willing to pursue more training. This really isn’t a big deal for me, but I’m fine with it and it is a conservative approach. I am a firm believer in point leadership and, in a small church with one full-time staff member, you better be a good leader. I wanted someone that has actually led something somewhere. And finally, we’d been spoiled by listening regularly to a very gifted communicator in Jamie Duncan. Our committee reviewed a lot of audio and video clips (in fact, having those available was a requirement) and we were very unified in the kind of teaching/preaching that we wanted at GH. I would describe it as Biblical, practical, informal, relational, and challenging to both Christians and non-Christians.

Chuck: Excellent, Steve. Thanks for your view—from the pew!

Wisdom

I don’t have to do evil things to wreck my life. I can simply do foolish things. God will still love me, but my life here on earth won’t go so well. God designed His universe to work a certain way. There is a right (wise) way and a wrong (foolish) way to do almost everything. If I reject God and still live wisely, I may regretfully spend eternity separated from God (hell), but I’ll muddle through fairly well here on earth, likely even better than a Christian that loves God but acts foolishly. Of course, the idea would be to be a wise Christian.

The book of Proverbs is FULL of statements where a father is pleading with his son to LISTEN and act wisely…to pursue wisdom. I think our Heavenly Father wants the same for us all as His sons and daughters.

Proverbs 8

Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice?
On the heights along the way,where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
beside the gates leading into the city, at the entrances, she cries aloud:
“To you, O men, I call out; I raise my voice to all mankind.
You who are simple, gain prudence; you who are foolish, gain understanding.
Listen, for I have worthy things to say; I open my lips to speak what is right.
My mouth speaks what is true, for my lips detest wickedness.
All the words of my mouth are just; none of them is crooked or perverse.
To the discerning all of them are right; they are faultless to those who have knowledge.
Choose my instruction instead of silver, knowledge rather than choice gold,
for wisdom is more precious than rubies, and nothing you desire can compare with her.
“I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence; I possess knowledge and discretion.
To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.
Counsel and sound judgment are mine; I have understanding and power.
By me kings reign and rulers make laws that are just;
by me princes govern, and all nobles who rule on earth.
I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.
With me are riches and honor, enduring wealth and prosperity.
My fruit is better than fine gold; what I yield surpasses choice silver.
I walk in the way of righteousness, along the paths of justice,
bestowing wealth on those who love me and making their treasuries full.

“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
when he gave the sea its boundary nso the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.

“Now then, my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways.
Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it.
Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway.
For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the LORD.
But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”

In the End

My favorite band, David Crowder*Band, has a strange and wonderful song by that name on their CD, CHURCH MUSIC. It’s a song that talks about the same thing as this quote:

“Only at the end of time, after we have attained God’s level of viewing, after every evil has been punished or forgiven, every illness healed, and the entire universe restored – only then will fairness reign. Then we will understand what role is played by evil, and by the Fall, and by natural law, in an “unfair” event like the death of a child. Until then, we will not know, and can only trust in a God who does know.” – Philip Yancey, DISAPPOINTMENT WITH GOD